The Psychological Factor In Retiring Early | Retirement Reality

Mark and Natalie did everything “right.”

Twenty years of work, saving, and putting off trips for “someday.” When they finally hit financial independence, they still couldn’t book the flights. Not because of math—because of the feeling that spending meant slipping backwards.

In this episode of Retirement Reality, Ari sits at their kitchen table and listens. What starts as a budgeting conversation turns into something bigger: how to move from protecting every dollar to actually using money for the life they pictured. You’ll hear the questions that unlocked their plan, the tradeoffs they chose on purpose, and the moment “maybe next year” turned into a date on the calendar.

If you’ve worked hard, saved well, and still hesitate to say yes to the trip, this story is for you.

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Mark and Natalie are not a client of Root Financial Partners, LLC and received no compensation for participating in this video. His statements reflect his own opinions and experience and are not indicative of any specific client’s experience and are not a guarantee of results. No cash or non-cash compensation was provided, and no material conflicts are known.

Advisory services are offered through Root Financial Partners, LLC, an SEC-registered investment adviser. This content is intended for informational and educational purposes only and should not be considered personalized investment, tax, or legal advice. Viewing this content does not create an advisory relationship. We do not provide tax preparation or legal services. Always consult an investment, tax or legal professional regarding your specific situation.

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Ari Taublieb, CFP ®, MBA  is the Chief Growth Officer of Root Financial Partners and a Fiduciary Financial Planner specializing in helping clients retire early with confidence.

Transcript

Know Your Earliest Retirement Date

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome back to the Early Retirement Podcast. I want all of you to know the earliest time you can retire. Doesn't mean you actually need to retire. In fact, most people think when I say, hey, you're in a position to retire, that people just do. That doesn't happen that often. Most of the time, people go, wow, that's great to know. I'm going to keep working another year for my team so I don't just leave them high and dry. Or I've got this project. Or I don't know what I'm going to do yet in retirement, but it's really nice going to work knowing I don't actually have to be here. If I have a bad day, if politics change, I have the ability to do what I want to do, which is spend my time on whatever it is I want to do. And that's once again where I want all of you to live. I don't want you in that I don't know phase. Many of you have heard this before, but I'm a soccer player, and my wife says I'm worse than hangry when I'm injured. If you don't know hangry, that's hungry and angry. A very dangerous combination. And she used to think right when I get my MRI, I'm going to be even worse than that. Why? Because I'm going to see the severity of my injury. But the truth is I relax. And I relax even if the injury is bad, because now I know the truth. I have a plan. Got it. I might have to do six months of physical therapy or a year to get back on the field. But I know what I need to do in order to once again play soccer, which is the goal in this case. I want all of you to know, wow, what if markets went down right when I retired? Or what if tax brackets change? Or what if my health changes? Or what if I live longer? Or what if, what if, what if, wow, I still see that I would be in a position if I were to make the following changes. Great, I still want to retire. So if you're wondering, okay, what do I need to know before I retire? Once again, guys, you can email me the word retire in the subject line, and I will respond back with a free guide. It's a checklist to make sure you don't forget anything. If you want to build your own plan, just make sure to put in the subject line the word optimize, and then I'll send you the software that I use to build financial plans. And then finally, we love to help people retire early. So you can go to our website, rootfinancial.com, and that's when people are like, wow, I get I need to be financially educated on all retirement topics, but I don't want to actually be the one in charge of implementing it because I want to be enjoying my retirement. And it's our job to make sure we're helping you get the most true value out of what you've worked so hard for. So many people just keep working until 60, 65, thinking, you know what, that's what I gotta do, that's what my parents did, but that that's not the reality. The reality is there's so many of you who listen to this podcast who go, Wow, maybe I could retire earlier, but don't take action on it. And we want to show you, hey, here's when it could be possible. And we're not just gonna sugarcoat it, we're not gonna blow smoke, we're gonna show, hey, here's the reality based on your situation, how much you could spend, here's what's reasonable. So it might surprise you, but it also might be a little bit of tough love. And we believe in being transparent. So hopefully the podcast resonates. I do all of this for you guys for free, and I love getting to do it. So thank you in advance for letting me record these episodes, or else it just feels like I'm talking to outer space. So appreciate you guys emailing me for these free guides. That's a long intro. Let's get to the episode.

SPEAKER_01 2:50

Yeah, we've been looking at lake houses down in Alabama as a second place. Um, but the primary reason for a new RV is drive around the country to different states we like, stay for a while, and say, hey, yeah, this is it. Let's let's buy a house here. So as a second home or primary, and you know.

Ready Versus Stressed Before Retirement

SPEAKER_00 3:12

You got my tax brain spinning there. I might have a few preferences, but uh that is awesome. I love the way you guys are looking at that. What I'm doing in this new show, Retirement Reality, is having heartfelt, candid conversations with people who have already retired so you can hear from them what worked well, what didn't, and everything in between. I hope you enjoy. And if you're retired and you want to personally come share your story on a future episode, there's a link right below this in the description of this episode where you can apply to be a guest. Now go enjoy the episode. My guests today are not retired. We're putting a spin on the episode, and these are two pre-retirees who cannot wait for retirement. They are not worried about being bored. They're lovely people, they're business owners. One of them even hired his first employee at age nine. I hope you guys enjoy today's episode. Mark Natalie, thank you guys for joining for another episode of Retirement Reality. This is a fun one because I know you're not retired quite yet. In the past few episodes, we've gotten to hear from people who are recently retired. We have some veteran retirees coming on the show in just a little bit. But right now, you guys are on that cusp. And I want to talk a little bit about that, but I want to start by asking one of my favorite questions, which is what's one word? I'll let both of you think of a word that you would use to describe the state you're in right now in terms of leading up to retirement. Excited, nervous, scared, you choose. I'll start with you, Mark. Ready. Ready, good word. I like that. Natalie?

SPEAKER_02 4:50

Um stressed.

SPEAKER_00 4:52

Stressed. Okay. We're gonna dive into that, and I appreciate it because sometimes these conversations are positive and to to the nth degree of, yeah, I should have no worries about retirement because everything's gonna be fine, and that stresses me out because it's like, no, no, you're allowed to have the feelings you have of I don't know if I'm gonna be okay. And it's weird, I've never not worked, and not having income comes in is scary, which is normal. Other people go, yeah, I I get that, but I'm just ready, like you had shared there, Mark. So let's talk a little bit, if you don't mind, about the current situation you're in, Mark, and why you're so ready. So if you don't mind sharing a little bit about your current situation when you're planning on retiring and elaborating on why you're ready.

SPEAKER_01 5:38

So we've been running a uh water and sewer construction company since uh well, it's been in operation since 1986. I've been in it since uh 2001. Father passed away seven years ago or well, got Alzheimer's seven years ago, passed away three. Uh, and it's just it's just time to time to get going. It was a family business and uh none of the other family seems interested. Been there 24 years, accumulated a little bit of uh cash and investments, and I'm ready to spend time with the family and the wife. So it's love it.

SPEAKER_00 6:21

Love it. Let me ask a quick question. Natalie, what do you think's the longest time frame where Mark has not checked his email?

SPEAKER_02 6:30

Um two days.

SPEAKER_00 6:33

Two days. That's pretty good. I was actually expecting I've had a few people say a few hours, so that's pretty good, Mark, if you can disconnect for a few days. Are you most excited about family, friends? You could be honest, or just not having to work.

SPEAKER_01 6:49

I'd say uh getting to go see family and friends and spending more time with family and friends, just it's uh they get neglected because you're putting all your focus and uh into work.

SPEAKER_00 7:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:02

Making a future, so it's yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:04

Are you worried at all about being bored, or are you like, look, financially, if I know I'm good to go, I've got a thing, I family, friends, hobbies, I'm good.

SPEAKER_01 7:13

I I I know I can find time to do just about anything and very flexible.

SPEAKER_00 7:20

Okay, I like hearing that. I love, I can see you're literally glowing. I can see your excitement level. Let's talk a little bit about I want to know about just some of these hobbies because there's certain things that people put off for so long, not because they don't want to do them, but they're busy. So outside of family and friends, what are some things that if I were like Mark, you have eight hours today and it's all alone time, what are you spending your time doing?

SPEAKER_01 7:44

I'd say uh fishing, hunting, uh boating with the family, just lazy around on the boat or out on the beach or anything. It's uh definitely outdoorsy.

SPEAKER_00 7:59

Love it. Love it. Very fun. Okay, Natalie, let's talk about all that fun stress you're having. So when you said stressed, tell me a little bit more. What why do you choose that word?

SPEAKER_02 8:11

Um, I'm just stressed because he's ready to be done. And um he's stressed out all the time, which in turn makes me stressed.

SPEAKER_00 8:23

Oh, yeah, I see that a lot. Um if you had a magic wand and you could wave it and remove one aspect of that stress, what would it be? I don't know. It's a tough question because you could say it's a few clients, you could say, to be honest, it's having to wake up to an alarm clock, you could say it's hearing at the end of the day, when I say how is your day? All the different things that are you've heard maybe multiple times. What is really kind of if we're diving into why is it so stressful? Um what do you think that is?

SPEAKER_02 9:01

Um, probably when he comes home from work and brings all his stress home.

Exiting A Family Business Responsibly

SPEAKER_00 9:05

Yeah. Well, let's do a a fun exercise. I want to hear about your guy's day in retirement. And I know it hasn't happened yet, so you're like, that's a terrible question because we're not there, but we're gonna play it out. And I like doing this because it really gets people more excited. Not that Mark needs to be more ready. I can tell Mark any ready, right? I want to hear a little bit because the the day of wow, you don't have to go back to work. It's one thing when people say, Yeah, you should practice retirement. It's like, hey, that sounds good, but I'm busy working, so I really can't think about really practicing it. What is the current time frame that you guys are thinking about in terms of retirement?

SPEAKER_02 9:47

Uh as soon as possible.

SPEAKER_01 9:49

As soon as we can offload the company, which is either to my son who's who's 20, 21 in uh October. Okay. Uh but that that just means I'll still be attached, so it'll be a semi-retirement uh for probably four or five, six years. Uh but you know, if we can sell it, we'll go as soon as we can uh close the deal. But you know, it's uh I know I can release the reins to him probably in about two years. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 10:20

Tell me if I'm wrong here, but what I'm hearing is if you both knew financially you were in a good spot, you would have no issue stopping work. No. Okay. What's interesting is whenever I work with people who have a business, sometimes there's a legacy component, like you had shared, it's been passed down, where I will present hypotheticals and I will do this in a way to really understand what's the client's real goal. And what I'll do is I'll say, imagine you guys could sell the business, but it's gonna sell for under what you would like, but you'll still be okay. You could still live your dream retirement, or it can go to your son, but you do have to stay on, which people say it's three, four years, then it becomes five, then it's six, then it's seven, then you're like, Am I actually retired? I'm working more than I actually was before. So is there a strong desire to leave it to your son, or is it more financially we just want to do what puts us in this best spot right now?

SPEAKER_01 11:17

Uh I think financially we've got more than enough, even without the company or without future sale of uh because we can live comfortably off of what we have and some, uh probably two or three times better than we have been the past 10, 15 years, uh without any future monies. Uh so it's more a matter of making sure the the family's securing what they do. He shows interest, but then he's 20, so he's uh, you know, think back to when you were in college. It's you know, you got your mind set on one direction, but it might change because of the issues that happen with the family and stuff like that. You know, it's you can change directions real quick at that age.

SPEAKER_00 12:02

Yeah, at 20, it's pizza or chicken tenders tonight. Um a little more after that. Well, this is interesting. I'm gonna tell you a story real quick, and it's a dangerous story, but it's important. And this is what made me really wake up to why I love getting to do this. So I told this story last episode, so for those of you who have heard it last, you're gonna have to hear it again, which is I had a woman who reached out and she said she was so upset that she had three million dollars. I said, I don't hear that every day, and I'm a little upset at you saying that, because there's people I know who would love to have three million dollars. So why are you angry? And she said, because I didn't need three million, I needed two million. I said, okay, well, you have more than that, so what's the problem? And she said, the problem is my health has deteriorated where I can't do the things I want to do anymore. I said, okay, tell me more. She said, well, for me, I would love to spend about sixty five hundred a month. That's what she wanted, so she could do what she wanted in life. I said, okay, so you want to spend sixty five hundred bucks a month, you have three million, like yeah, you're I don't see any issue here. And she said, Ari, you're missing the point. At two million, I would have been fine. And I've been sitting at my desk the last five years, and now I have sciatica. Have you guys heard of sciatica? Oh, I've got it. Okay, you've had it. Even worse. So I haven't had it. She's telling me, she's going, all right, I'm not gonna be able to hike to the degree I want because getting on a plane is a hassle, and then I'm gonna second guess even taking the trips. So I'm upset because I didn't need three million, and I have it. I was like, okay, well, that's powerful. I was looking so deep in the numbers and analysis, which is why when I hear a word like stressed, I go, well, Natalie, thank you for being honest. The stress that is being put on us, sometimes we don't even know what life would look like without the business. And if it's truly unnecessary, meaning you would be okay with it or without it, the argument is, well, why have it? We don't want to be frivolous and just give it away if maybe your son would really enjoy it. We don't want to sell it under asking because as a human who works so hard on the business, that just feels wrong. But there does become a point where we have to ask ourselves, okay, what are we putting first? Is it us and our health, which is hard to do, or is it a business that in 15, 20 years I'll look back on fondly, but maybe not go, that was the priority. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_01 14:20

Yeah, and I think uh being a business owner, it's we will be okay, but then you got the the 12 guys that work for you, and it's uh what are you gonna do with them? So it's uh for the past year and a half I've been trying to find somebody to take the place of myself, whether you know we made money or a lot of money or even close to no money, just so the guys continue working. Because my employees have been with the company a lot of them 15 years, 20 years, and it's uh you know, they're kind of part of the family too. I've got some new people, but you know, you're talking two years as a new employee. Yeah, because once they come in, they really never leave. So it's you know, it's they they've been a part of our life for a long time. So kudos to you.

Spending For Experiences Without Regret

SPEAKER_00 15:12

It sounds like you built something special, and at this point, you're not looking at it of like, yeah, you guys will be okay, but what about all these other people? So it's admirable. My job is to look out for my client's best interest when I have a client. And sometimes that's me saying, okay, great, let's try to see if we can sell the business so that your employees still receive great, you know, values and that nothing shifts on that end. But I've seen that get drawn out so much that by the time something occurs, it's now your health isn't in the spot you want it to be because of the stress. So obviously there's a fine line there. Natalie, I want to hear from you a little bit about what's sounds most exciting. Pretend for a second the business was either sold or your son's running it and things are working well, Mark's not having to spend a ton of time on it. Does your retirement look the same? Are you fishing? Are you, you know, um hunting? Are you like what are you doing?

SPEAKER_02 16:07

Uh traveling.

SPEAKER_00 16:10

Yeah, let's talk about that. Where are you most excited to go?

SPEAKER_02 16:13

Um, to visit family.

SPEAKER_00 16:17

Where are they?

SPEAKER_02 16:18

In Texas.

SPEAKER_00 16:19

Okay. And where do you guys live?

SPEAKER_02 16:21

Ohio.

SPEAKER_00 16:22

Okay. In terms of travel to family, are there other travel things where there'd be outside the country, RV, anything like that?

SPEAKER_02 16:31

Yeah, yeah. We want to buy an RV.

unknown 16:33

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 16:34

Another another RV.

SPEAKER_02 16:35

Another RV, a bigger RV.

SPEAKER_00 16:38

Okay. I I like to play a little game here sometimes, and so forgive me if you guys have seen this on a fut on a previous episode, but uh, I like to play a little game about helping people spend. Not for the sake of it, but I don't want you guys, and I say you guys because I feel like I have that responsibility for making all these videos. I don't want you mad at me when you're 85 with$10 million, going, Why didn't you tell us to buy a bigger RV? We are in a fine spot to do so. But I also am not gonna just say, hey, go get whatever RV you want, if that will jeopardize your other goals. And so I have a question first that I need to clarify before I can get to the fun, which is how old are both of you today?

SPEAKER_02 17:17

47.

SPEAKER_00 17:18

52. Okay. You're gonna get questions from friends, neighbors. Oh my gosh, you guys are retiring so early. I mean, I know you did well, but surely there's no way. What if you live till 90? What if you live till 100? That's what I call head trash that gets difficult to ignore, but it's required. And so what I'm gonna ask is I'm gonna give you a blank check, and I'm gonna say, if you receive this check for the rest of your month, for the rest of your life, you'll get it every month, and it will adjust for inflation, so you don't have to calculate it in your head. If I were to say, guys, here's a blank check, how much needs to be on there every month, excluding big purchases like RVs or travel, so you guys can live comfortably? What would that monthly number look like?

SPEAKER_01 18:02

Oh, I know the number.

SPEAKER_02 18:04

I don't know the number.

SPEAKER_01 18:05

So we live on between seven to eight thousand a month. Uh and that's that's fairly comfortable for us. Love it. Now what I've kind of run that we can do for the next 40 years, which is definitely 20 years past my expectation. For me anyway, uh probably quintuple that.

SPEAKER_00 18:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:29

So and it's because we wouldn't know what to do with it. So I, you know, we're comfortable living with each other, so it's I love it.

SPEAKER_00 18:36

I love that you guys don't have the need, okay? Because the keeping up with the Joneses is a real thing, and I'm not feeling that from you guys, which is fun. Excuse me. If you have$8,000 a month,$96,000 a year, let's call it$100 to keep it simple. You have$100,000 a year every single year that you can spend. You could live comfortably and then outside of that buy RVs, and financially I'm not hearing concerns there, which is good. Which means you're at this point truly just being good people. You are working because you want to, and you want to make sure your employees are taken care of and your children are taken care of, which is beautiful. What I find is the nicest and best people sometimes put themselves last, which my job is not to say you should put yourself first or put yourself last, but to truly say, what do you actually want? Sometimes it just takes saying it out loud to go, you're right, I am going to do this. It's not a perfect company, but I don't know when I'm gonna find another company that can take over, and my employees still do seem happy with it. There's a balancing act there. But here's my question: if I forced you to spend$200,000 a year, you will have to double it. And if you don't, ready, it goes to your least favorite political party. You can't go ahead and save it more. You it, I mean, you could do whatever you want. You could say we're gonna give it all to charity. You could say we're gonna give it to our children. The answers I get here are so interesting. So I love this question. So I'll ask it. You guys are forced to spend$200,000 a year, another hundred a year has to be spent, it cannot be saved, or it's going to that political party you do not agree with. What are you doing?

SPEAKER_01 20:09

Well, I know what I would do. Lots of cruises, lots of trips to Jamaica, going across the pond to Europe. Oh, it's uh I could be super imagined, never been to Australia, uh, trip to Alaska.

SPEAKER_02 20:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:23

If stuff in Ukraine, Russia ever stops, it'd be nice to go over there and enjoy some of their scenic buildings and all that. You know, it's I I think we're ready to travel the world. Uh and it's you know, it's that's my intention. She wants to as well, but her family's a little older. I've lost my family so far, so it's uh, you know, we want to spend some time with her family or the grandkids down in the Carolinas, and then you know, all c also focus on our own vacations. Like we're planning a trip to Jamaica.

SPEAKER_02 20:55

We haven't really gone anywhere in the last 20 years.

SPEAKER_00 20:59

By ourselves.

SPEAKER_02 20:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:00

So it's well, you guys deserve you're lovely people. I've never met two people who have the exact same travel goals, so it is not weird for one person to go, I want to go to Australia, and the other go, Well, I still have family. And they're become that there's a book called Die With Zero. Have you ever heard of this book before?

SPEAKER_02 21:19

I have.

Health Purpose And Legacy Planning

SPEAKER_00 21:20

I have. Okay. Listening to the audio. Self-explanatory title. Okay. But what I love about this book is they talk about paying for experiences. And what a lot of people do is they go, Wow, so I made X amount of dollars throughout my career, and now I'm in a comfortable position. You already have said it, Mark. You know you can spend more, but it feels weird. You're like, well, we live off 100 a year. Are we really going to spend 50 a year, 50 on maybe one trip to take the whole family to Australia? That feels difficult because you're a human and not a robot. But what we'll often encourage is can you start to do this on a smaller scale where you take everyone out to dinner and you go, everyone has To get an appetizer, it's required. It's gonna feel weird the first time. But you have to get an app and you have to get an entree and a dessert. And then you go, Wow, what was that experience like? And I have clients that go, Ari, I know you were deal telling me to do this as practice because you tell me we have enough money that we can take the whole family on a trip overseas, but that experience alone made me so uncomfortable. I'm not gonna ever do it. I go, great, then we learned a great lesson. Other people do it and go, wow, these are people who were so appreciative. We have enough means to do so. We're taking everyone on a trip. We're not gonna do it every year, but we're gonna do it in a way that makes it so we can spend more time together and look back with, wow, I'm so glad we did it. What we want to make sure we're protecting, which is a big part of my role as an advisor, is the early years of retirement because too many people make the mistake of, well, I've got healthcare and I'm gonna do a home remodel. Maybe I want to help the kid with college, maybe I they want to go to grad school, maybe they want a down payment. And now we've also got travel, and we don't want the rest of the family to be expecting, well, the downings are taking us on a trip every year. So obviously there's a balancing act there, but no, the true job, and I I joke that I'm the meanest advisor on YouTube, but I promise I'm not mean, is I don't want you guys mad at me later. And if you did a great job saving and investing, it's about experience these things. So it's not just, hey, yeah, go do it. It's hey, you're in a great spot. And I'm not saying you can do it every year, but markets are doing well. Here's how much you have set aside. Do it and do it guilt-free. And if it's okay with you guys, what I would want to do is another interview in a year from now where I get to hear and ask your word. And I hope, Natalie, your word might be like freedom. Or it might be maybe say a word in Jamaican because you're just you spent time there. So thank you for being willing to share what does excite you because I think it helps other people go, wow, okay, I'm not in a dissimilar boat. Um, let me ask you guys a little bit, if you don't mind. When it comes to retiring, I want to ask if there's anything that is causing fear outside of the finances. Because the finances at this point, I'm almost putting that to the side. Yeah, we can optimize that and you're gonna be in a good spot. Pretend the business is sold, pretend we've moved on. Is there anything else that you find is giving you fear? Whether it be that conversation to your employees about, hey guys, it's not me. Maybe I'm unaware that they're already like, oh no, we know you guys are thinking about it. But the is there anything else that I'm missing that you think will give you a little bit of anxiety, or is it truly I'm ready?

SPEAKER_01 24:41

Me? I'm I'm ready. It's stress and anxiety has been part of my life for well since since I left left my parents' house when I was 18. So, you know, I moved down to Oklahoma to go to college and flight school, and then flew for the airlines, lost a job in 2001, started getting back into what I did as a kid, which is construction. Uh and it's uh it's just been stress, stress, stress, and work, work, work, and you know, it's it's time to enjoy it.

SPEAKER_00 25:16

So me, I'm I'm guilt-free. Love it. Yeah, you you've put in the hard hours. How are you feeling, Natalie? Not only about that, but is Mark are you like, hey, Ari, I'm sleeping next to this guy. This guy's more stressed than you could ever imagine. He's not even alluding to that.

SPEAKER_02 25:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 25:34

Yeah, he's he's very stressed. Like he's just ready to be done, and he's not sleeping, so I'm not sleeping, and you know.

SPEAKER_00 25:44

Is it hard to prioritize yourselves? Because Mark, you already said it. You're financially it doesn't seem like you guys are worried. It sounds like it's just this other stuff of do we sell the business or our son?

SPEAKER_01 25:55

It's it's uh it's the guys at the company, and then uh, you know, the the kids. I think the kids are set up, you know. What I've run through, I think we're setting the kids up that, you know, even if they have a hard way to get through life, we're already investing in IRAs for them, Roth IRAs, uh trying to max those out every year. So, you know, it's something they can't touch until older. Uh, once they've got a good foothold there, you know, they're starting to invest themselves. Uh my daughter's saved a phenomenal amount of money working a little over minimum wage job. Uh my son's putting into his own IRAs and uh also the Roths. So it's you know, it's it's the guys that that I'm really worried about. I think I think once we can come up with a plan for them and their families, uh I think we'll start taking care of our own. And it's uh that's that's a big thing. I know my kids see the stresses and it affects them as well.

SPEAKER_02 27:00

They never see you.

SPEAKER_01 27:02

So yeah. I think that's that's that's that's my fear is not being able to spend quality time with the family.

SPEAKER_00 27:11

Well, I'm glad you're being intentional about it. I and the fact that you guys are at the age you are, it's hey, there's plenty and plenty of good years ahead. Not that you're not having good years now, but what I often urge my clients, and it's difficult because I can feel it from you guys, going, we want to be in a position to spend more time with them yesterday, but you also care about these guys, which is also family. So you have an extended family. The difficult thing is the really, really lovely people like yourselves often do push it back because it's oh, that wasn't the right deal, and then you push it back one more time, and now how many years have gone by, and now health is impacted. So I hope that you guys are able to prioritize yourselves. I have a question for you. I'll be amazed if you know the answer because I didn't even know the answer a few years ago. But have you ever heard of a SEPA designation? C E P A Certified something perfect. No. You're close though. I liked it. Okay. You've got the first one, okay? I never even heard of this, by the way. But there's so many different designations out there. I think the industry comes up with this, so us advisors get to feel fancy. That's my personal thought. But it turns out there's a little more to it. And this stands for Certified Exit Planning Association. And there are certain advisors that specialize in working with business owners and helping them understand how do you get the right deal, not just for your team, but for you, but also understand, well, how does that impact your own finances? And there are people that go, well, I just want to stay on, but in an advisory capacity. And you can structure a deal to be formed a certain way. And I don't know enough about that, but I have, I believe it's three advisors now. We had two, but now three, on our team who specialize in that. And there are certain things to consider there. Not saying it changes the timing of anything here, but I there are a lot of emotions when it comes to selling the business. And what I want to make sure you all can take time to do is put yourselves first. So with that being said, I would like to transition a little bit to ask about legacy planning. Because I like to ask the following question because the reactions are always interesting. How much money would be too much money to pass away with? And you can say zero. You could say I want my kids to get whatever's left over. Some people go, you know, if I were if how many children do you guys have? Three. Three on top of the 12 at the company, 15. No, we'll stick with three. Three children. I'm, by the way, one of three. I am the middle child. My parents used to say I was the center child to get me to do chores earlier in life. So um, feel free to steal that. So my my question is specifically, like, for example, my parents, they did not want any of us to inherit more than a million dollars, and we will be inheriting nowhere close to that. But they did not want us to from a strict value perspective because they wanted us to work for our money. Some people go, well, that's awesome, but I would love to put my children in a better position. So nothing right or wrong, but is there a dollar amount that's too much, or do you mind just sharing general feelings around legacy planning and what you want for your children?

SPEAKER_01 30:21

I know what I want to do.

SPEAKER_02 30:24

So I don't really have any thoughts on it. I'll let you go.

SPEAKER_01 30:28

So I'm I'm under the same opinion as apparently your parents were. Uh we'll set them up to have something if there's medical issues that that they'll be taken care of. Uh, but the rest of their life, you know, like us, we went to college and wanted to form our own thing and uh, you know, running the business that we're doing now. It's uh you know, it's it's been an experience I probably wouldn't have given up even with all the stressors. And it's it's character building. Uh once once you do that and you learn how to maintain your own life, your own finances, and and learn what's important in life, which is what we're trying to get to right now, which is which is family. You know, it's money's not everything. I think it's just I think it's just something to get us to go do what we want to do guilt free without worrying about, you know, where are we gonna get it from going into debt and you know, all that. So it's uh I'd I'd say what we've put into it, and uh, you know, I think once they go off, I my daughter's getting into medical, my son, he's he's pretty much a jack of all trades. Uh if he takes over the company, he'll be doing really well. If he doesn't, he's still gonna be doing really well at whatever he gets into. Love it. I'm I'm not too worried about him, so I I'd like to spend as much as I can on this girl right here. I love that. I love that. If you could get her anything, what would it be? I'd say a private airplane.

SPEAKER_02 32:03

You're not getting an airplane.

SPEAKER_01 32:05

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 32:06

A lake house.

SPEAKER_01 32:07

I would offer to fly for you. Yeah, yeah. Oh, you guys are. Yeah, we're we're looking at a lakehouse. We just just built a cabin on some property that we've got in southeast Ohio. Uh, and it's it's paid off, so if anything poop ever hits the fan, we've got a place to go and uh it's paid off. But yeah, we've been looking at lake houses down in Alabama as a second place. Uh but the primary reason for a new RV is drive around the country to different states we like, stay for a while, and say, hey, yeah, this is it. Let's let's buy a house here. So as a second home or primary, and you know.

SPEAKER_00 32:47

You got my tax brain spinning there. I might have a few preferences, but um that is awesome. I love the way you guys are looking at that. And it it's cool to be like, yeah, we don't know where we're gonna end up. Like, I I don't even like the word retirement, to be honest, because it kind of feels like it's almost like over in a weird way. It's not, it's a new stage of life. Time I love people will tell me, I can't wait to redate my spouse. It's been 20 years. I've been working like you guys, I'm so excited for what's to come. I have two final things I would like to address if it's okay with you. The first is I want to talk about purpose. It might not be a concern, but I just want to ask it because as a business owner, you have a strong purpose, not just to provide for your employees, but to run this business that was in the family for a long time. When you're retired, you will no longer have that obligation. Do you worry at all about purpose and fulfillment?

SPEAKER_01 33:36

Uh no, it's uh I think I think I'll be able to refocus it uh and hopefully be able to put as much into my family as we did into the company. So, and it's I can't say it's just me because she's had to put up with me for all these years running the company, and it's it's just as tough on her as it is on me, because she's got to put up with me.

SPEAKER_00 33:58

So I can see that. Um, that it will be a big weight off your guys' shoulders. I can literally tell. Um, here's the final thing I like to do for this episode. What I will do is I'm gonna go silent for the next minute, and I'm going to let both of you, you can talk for a minute, over a minute, whatever you guys want, but generally around a minute or so, talk to someone who also wants to retire early. So you can tell them anything. You can go, I was a business owner, I I get you could speak to a younger you, you could speak to someone who wants to retire early and is just worried about, oh my gosh, how am I gonna fulfill my time? It sounds like you guys aren't worried about that and go, hey, go travel. You could give any advice that you would like. And the responses so far have been amazing. People have shared, make sure to plan, have a plan B. What if it turns out this doesn't work out? Don't just say I'm gonna golf, because if you hurt your back, then what are you gonna do? So you can give advice on you can go, Natalie, from your perspective. I've been the wife of someone who's been at work all the time. I can only tell you, make sure that you are putting yourself first and sleeping the best you can. Whatever you guys want to do, I'll give you both a minute. And this is once again directed towards younger you or someone else who just wants to retire, and you can give some guidance considering you're just about there.

SPEAKER_02 35:20

You can go first.

SPEAKER_01 35:22

Uh I think uh I've always been a saver all my lives. Don't don't know where it came from, uh because my family wasn't much of savers, uh, but started mowing grass when I was eight years old, hired my first employees at nine years old uh to help cut grass because I had so many lawns to run. Uh, but I never really spent the money other than going to Aladdin's castle, if that dates me. Uh you know, you you put money in a piggy bank starting out. And then uh I learned about investing probably twenty years ago in rental properties. So, you know, you started out with uh a small rental, and since we're in construction, we could take care of the the minor things ourselves, and you know, you you think about the future but you focus on the present as much as you can. Uh because the people in your life are the more important than you know, trying to, like you said, catch up with the Joneses, because I don't know any Joneses and I don't care about the Joneses. Uh the people in your family or you can count them on your hand, the people that mean something to you. So you know, uh start stashing some pennies away, learn how to invest, uh teach people how to invest that are around you in a nice way without, you know, it's like, hey, you know, man, it's uh how them uh IRAs go on you. You know, is that 401k at your office treating you good? And you know, but uh not too many people talk about the future and financial and is somehow it's lacking in our schools. Uh but I think that's uh that's one thing that people ought to get up on is teaching their kids how to to save and invest, and explain the difference between saving and investing. Investing is something you're setting up for your future self. Learn the eighth wonder of the world compound. You know, once that compounding rolls over, they probably won't see it for 10, 15, 20 years. But once they see it, it's like, holy mackerel, you mean that thousand dollars turned into what? It's like, oh yeah, it's uh it's a big wonderful thing. Uh so to tell anybody it's uh think about your future, but focus on the present.

SPEAKER_00 37:39

Love that. Natalie, how many employees did you have at age nine? I'm just kidding. Um what would you want to share with with your younger self?

SPEAKER_02 37:50

Um, I don't know. I think it's kind of like you said, um take time for you know yourself. Um I've spent the last 20 years, you know, raising kids and and I felt like I was all alone because he was you know busy working and um just take time for yourself and you know regroup and and all of that. Um kids don't have to have the nicest things, um, you know, that sort of thing.

SPEAKER_01 38:27

So I mean that's really and take care of your health.

SPEAKER_02 38:31

Yeah, take care of your health, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:33

Because you only get one body, one life.

Final Advice And Next Steps

SPEAKER_00 38:35

Yeah, yeah. Good luck quantifying your health. That's what I'll often say. So appreciate you guys coming on, Mark Natalie. This was a fun episode for me to get to record, so thank you for being willing to do this and coming on the show.

SPEAKER_01 38:48

Well, hey, keep up your videos, love them, they're awesome. I listen to you at work all the time. I I've been trying to, if you know ArrowDog 72, hard to forget. Okay, yeah. But I try to I try to get into your live sessions, but it it's tough sometimes.

SPEAKER_00 39:05

So yeah, with timing, of course. Um, but once again, guys, appreciate it. And that's it for this episode. Hopefully you guys enjoyed it. If you did, please like and comment below what was interesting. Thanks, guys.

SPEAKER_02 39:17

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 39:19

If you enjoyed this episode of Retirement Reality, check out how we help people retire with confidence. You can see we have an FAQ section on our website. If you just hover over the resources tab, you can go ahead and see this FAQ section here and learn everything about what it's like to work with us, including our personalized planning process, a quick overview of how everything works, do you have enough money to become a client? Where will your money be? Everything from tax planning to fees, we are extremely transparent and want to make sure that you're working with someone that resonates with you. Hopefully you enjoyed this episode, and if you once again want to be a guest on a future show so that you can share your story, you can see that in the link of this episode. Thanks. Thank you all as always for listening to the Early Retirement Podcast. I love getting to host these shows and make different content for you guys every single week. I've not missed a single week in years, and that is because I love getting to do this. Now, please be smart about this before you actually execute any strategy that you see me talk about or hear me talk about, should I say, please talk to your financial advisor, your tax preparer, your estate attorney. Please be smart about this. None of this should be construed as financial advice. This is for fun, educational, informational purposes only. Once again, just quick disclaimer here, guys, please be smart about this. Appreciate you listening as always. And you can, of course, submit a question on my website, early retirementpodcast.com. If you, of course, want me to address a specific case study or topic. I will not promise I can get to it, but I respond to every single person. And if I find it will be helpful for a lot of people, I will absolutely make an episode on it. At the very least, give you some insight. That's it. Thanks, guys.